Skip White Performance "Customer Service"

Here is a volley of an email to and from "Sabrina" who does "customer service" for Skip White Performance - a Tennessee company that sells pretty much exclusively Chinese and Korean "knock off" products about a defective Holley 12-803 style fuel pressure regulator they are getting out of Korea or China and selling on eBay.
 
The proof they are defective is in the pic which shows the check ball of the regulator valve "stuck" sitting off to the side off the seat.  The item will never operate to regulate anyting if this happens and instead will flood the carburetor with what pressure is in front of the regulator.  This is becsue they were assembled with a 1/4 inch check ball which is too small to be kept centered in the cavity which is supposed to keep it lined up to the seat.  It should NEVER be able to stick off to the side of the seat like that.  A 5/16 ball minimum is required.
 
"Sabrina" does  not have a clue what the issue is - and admits she is not "technical" - even though it keeps getting explained to her, and apparently she takes the matter to "Skip" who misses the mark also, and then she starts calling names.
 
This is a perfect example of  an ugly reality about companies who have customer support people who not only do not know the product, but do not have a clue about the field of the product and how it is used; but in this case companies who use "females" that are totally useless and even hostile because THEY do not understand what their own job is about.
 
Use this link to return to our page which explains how to use an in-tank fuel pump to fuel a caruburetor at low pressure => http://gimp4diy.com/content/using-tank-electric-pump-carburetor
 
Some email addresses have been redacted to prevent robot spam
 
*****  PASTE BEGINS *****
 

Customer <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

Customer <xxxxxxxxx@gmail.com>

Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 2:31 PM

To: "Sabrina M. Compton" <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net.silent.hidecert.certified.readnotify.com>

I will build a web page with these emails featured on it.  It was a website talking about this problem, and these defective regulators that showed me what it was that might be that which was wrong with it.

You STILL cannot read that the regulator HAS ALWAYS had only had 14 PSI on it, - until it would not work unless higher pressure was used - and that I do have it working with the 14 PSI - using an in-tank pump, and that the pump in the tank has NOTHING to do with it and that the ball off to the side - able to sit off to the side is a defect.

The fact it would not work without higher pressure was because the force of the fuel was needed to push that small 1/4 inch ball back on the seat and close it.

I did not call you any names as you have me, but females who do not work ON autos or engines have no business trying to do customer service for auto mechanics with automotive mechanical issues.

I have known some very good female gear heads, and it has nothing to do with being female as much as it has to do with how MOST females think - and react emotionally and nastily - like you have.

As the owner of a business I would have never let you send an email like you just sent, and the fact of the matter is the female brain is not one suited well to logic - by and large - and two books on the subject titled "The Female Brain" - both written by females themselves say this - and say largely what I just said.  Google the title with the word "Amazon" and you will find them

I would not order anything else from Skip White Performance - trust me - but it has nothing to do with how YOU handled this; it has to do with the fact that you people there cannot read plain English and understand it.

There are different designs of regulators, and the in tank pump regulator you are trying to refer to is a by-pass system regulator and it DOES NOT regulate down to 4 to 15 psi.  It is NOT adjustable to get down to 14 psi.

If you knew what you were talking about - you would explain the part numbers you claim Holley makes to accomplish what I sought to do, but in the end it is EXACTLY - in terms of design - what I did - regulate using a separate by-pass regulator to 14 PSI and use the 12-803 to drop the pressure to carburetor pressure.

You are a grossly uninformed young lady, and I cannot figure how as wrong as you are, you continue to "argue" when the facts of the emails clearly show what I have said is true.

I do not care how many of these you say you have sold, because I am telling you the one I got had a 1/4 inch ball in it, it is not designed for so small a ball, it caused the regulator to not be able to work AT ALL, and I have no reason to make this up to try to help your company avoid what might be an ugly scenario one day.

A lot of guys buy things they do not really need, and many of these regulators are put on in non-critical applications where they are not really needed to regulate anything.  Many carburetors can take 12 psi on the needle seat of the float, and so a pump like a Holley blue or red or black can be used actually without a regulator most times. 

A Holley 12-914 is an in-tank pump similar to my e3270 but it does not push 110 lbs of pressure - it is only capable of doing so - and when used with a by-pass line - one can regulate pressure at the fueling point to anything they want.  You do not understand fluid dynamics and pressure - as without a dead head on the line the 12-914 pump - and no pump pushes pressure - they push volume first.

This is what I mean by the female brain - you do not understand pressure, flow and how to regulate both and the pic I sent you early on does just that - regulate what gets to the final regulator DOWN to 14 psi.

There is nothing "sexist" about the fact that you do not "get it", and keep failing to "get it" - like in a math class where the teacher keeps going over and over and over the same thing.  You are dense.

I studied Engineering in undergraduate and have a Degree in Law. I own a few companies.

You, on the other hand seem to lack the good sense to even know how to read and ask how something is working that has been told to you is working just as I said for the reason I said.

You respond with denial and not fact.

I have not called you any names, as you have me - when I have only been factual and stated the fact that the female way of thinking and responding to a factual thing is usually - just as you have done here - with emotion and no fact - usually calling names to jab as you have done.

I do not know of a single guy who appreciates going into an auto parts store and have a female wait on them at a parts counter who does not have a clue what he is there to buy or what he is talking about.  And that is YOU here.

I will build a web page to this issue, open it to comments, post your emails and the pictures - visit a few forums to get it rolling - and lets see what the general public thinks.  The pictures of that ball sitting off to the side will tell anyone who knows about cars Skip White Performance is a fraudsters company and is just fine selling Chinese junk - and knows that is exactly what is going on.   AND denies the true and has really poor customer service and attitude.

Lets then see what that does for his Internet presence and business.

I asked you to do yourself a favor and not reply, and instead you wrote yourself into a deeper hole.

Your Customer

On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Sabrina M. Compton <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net> wrote:

I am glad that I am not a sexist bigot as yourself and that I am intelligent enough not to stoop down to your level. Your business is no longer welcome at Skip White Performance and we will not be pulling the regulators from inventory. The funny thing is, if they were as messed up as you think they are, you wouldn’t be the only one complaining about them, considering I have sold 100 just in the past 90 days. No one else has reported this issue. Probably because everyone knows that a fuel pump in the tank has 110 lbs pressure (like the Holley 12-914) and a Holley black pump only has 14 lbs. There is NO way that the regulator we sell could regulate 110 lbs of pressure down to 6 or 7. That is why Holley makes a SPECIAL regulator for cars with in tank fuel pumps. But I guess you should have already known that, considering you have a degree in fueling systems. Skip would have never insulted your intelligence, of course unless you spoke to him like you have spoken to me. He was only trying to explain the issue to you, which he has experienced firsthand himself. Obviously, you have your mind made up and it is a waste to spend any more time on this matter. Have a great weekend!
 
 
-Sabrina M. Compton
 
Skip White Performance & Automotive
*** 1910 Brookside Lane *** NEW ADDRESS
Kingsport, TN 37660
423.722.5152
Direct line : 423.408.2779
 
M-F EXCLUDING Wed 1pm-8pm EST
Sat 11am-3pm EST
 
Toll Free: 877.383.5152
Fax: 423.230.4001

 
From: Customer [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:25 PM
To: Sabrina M. Compton
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

 
Wow . . .

You folks do not know how to read . . . nor what you are talking about.

You do not need my phone number to cal and give me WRONG information and use my air-time I have to pay for.

Your questions were not relevant because they were already addressed in earlier emails - AND I told you what you were asking again

Skip is wrong.  A pump can be located anywhere - and pressure can be regulated as to how much it will deliver to the fueling point in a variety of way - and pressure and volume are two separate issues as to how much a fuel pump can deliver in gallons per hour at a given pressure.

I have said there was / is ONLY 14 PSI on the regulator.  So there is no "HUGE" amount of pressure on regulator. 

I have said and showed you how the system works - and three others like it also work.

I have said how I repaired the fuel pressure regulator - and that it NOW works fine.

I had to use the check ball style regulator because the other two "pressure plate" style regulators I have will not regulate to 7 psi reliably.

It was the 1/4 inch check ball plain and simple not closing reliably when the diaphragm lifted pressure off of it, and a 5/16 check ball fixed it.

I think even if you opened one up - YOU - would not what you were looking at.  It is bad enough if an engineer and fuel system designer like me has to deal with the mechanical thought process of a female, but it is really bad if another guy wants to get into a testosterone match and is just as WRONG.

I sent an email early in this process and described how blowing into the regulator it did not work either.  Later in another email I described in detail how the regulator functions. 

IF . . . you read Holleys' instructions at https://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R7914-3rev3.pdf they show several ways to hook up the regulator systems - and for the by-pass model - there is simply a regulator in the return line to regulate up front pressure - and in fact all fuel injections systems work this way today - and that is exactly how I set up mine to feed 14 PSI to the regulator.  BUT . . .  it did not work to regulate DOWN the 14 psi on it until I fixed it with a 5/16 inch check ball.

MECHANICALLY, the proof flies in your face - I know how this regulator works and if the ball never closes it will not regulate anything.  In fact human breath pressure should make it work - it does not and in an early email someone there tested one and showed and agreed it does not work.  You can run the screw all the way out and it will only take 4 psi to close the ball.

The pump being in the tank is not what creates the pressure, it is just capable of producing 90 PSI.  The by-pass regulator free-flow allows most of the fuel to return to the tank through the return line - except for 14 PSI which feeds the regulator.  It was set up like this from the beginning - but the regulator never worked - BECAUSE of what I said.

Higher pressure will not "BLOW BY' the check valve it works fine with higher pressure until shut off - it is just not the way to go - and I knew that when higher pressure was needed something was really wrong with the regulator.

If "Skip" was right - then it would not be working just fine NOW using the e3270 pump in the tank - but he is NOT right - he and or you have not read and understood the evidence I have presented.  You have not read and understood the emails

I am not asking for anything from your company - I was trying to help you. You are selling defectively assembled regulators - PERIOD

What you have now put in writing shows how uniformed shipwhiteperformance really is - OR that it remains in denial afraid of eBay buyer protection or a lawsuit.  Neither of which I am pursuing - but was trying to help you.

IF . . .  you opened one of these regulators up any engineer can tell you the casting is NOT designed for a 1/4 inch ball as a check valve from just the cavity size and relief glides where the ball sits anyone can see it is NOT designed for a ball that small, and the fact it will stick off to the side is proof it would never work.

The regulator I bought from you and the Holley 12-803 and 12-804 is EXACTLY the same unit.  I had to grind the diaphragm pin on the one I bought from you on the pintle to get it half-way stop flooding and work because then the pintle could not push the ball down far enough to go off the seat.  What that then did was allowed it to work - but I could not get pressure over 5 psi. 

SO . . . I purchased a HOLLEY 12-807 diaphragm fuel pressure regulator repair kit for $9.99 and it fits EXACTLY and PERFECTLY to replace the diaphragm in the unit I bought from you which I ground the pintle down on after I replaced the 1/4 inch ball with the 5/16 inch ball, and even used the Holley spring.  The Holley parts fit exactly

Please . . . you folks do not have a clue.  You can look at the Holley 12-803 and even see on the knock off unit you sell where the wax mold was scraped where it would read "Holley" and "Made in Korea" on the unit.

I used to work in manufacturing, and I owned a company where we did lost wax and centrifugal casting so I know what I am looking at.

Holley contracts for all those parts from foreign suppliers and there is nothing to stop those suppliers from selling those parts on the open market - except there is no financial incentive to do so unless legally labor and liability is excused by the product from being made in countries which do not respect our intellectual property laws - as Korea and China do not.

It is a COMPLETE Holley 12-803 knock off.  Further I had an actual Holley 12-803 in my hand and compared the two

What is really bad is you have put your stupidity in print.  I could post this to any one of a group of newsgroups which have been discussing how the Holley 12-803 and the foreign "eBay" knock offs do not work well, and everyone of them would agree with me.  Every single guy would take one apart and see EXACTLY what I see if it has a 1/4 inch ball in it.  Every one of them would find their problem solved by a 5/16 check ball in place of the 1/4 ball.

I could name "skipwhiteperformance" and show how you people do not have a clue, even when SHOWED.

My "attitude" Sabrina is completely factual, and if you are WRONG, you are WRONG - and I have proven that. 
Furthermore the mechanical facts of the case show that you are wrong.  You come on the "late show" with now irrelevant facts and information that - frankly if you give to other customers - it would be equally WRONG given to them.

Skip could have called me and insulted me trying to tell me how there is nothing mechanically wrong with the regulator to cover his and your company's legal tail, but if it had to go to court - any number of engineers would dis-assemble the unit and report exactly what I have said.  The housing is designed for at the very least a 5/16 ball and will not work reliably if at all with a 1/4 ball in it.

I have the pictures to further prove this.  Remember, this is the age of the Internet and I own 16 domains, two of which are fueling issue domains - where I could post permanent pages about these junk eBay fuel pressure regulators, and there is not a single party who would not beleive their own eyes when I tell them what to look for.

Lastly, you do not who you are talking to - and so did it occur you that I might be a fueling system engineer?  And . . . I am.

Do yourself a favor, do not reply to this issue further

Your Customer

 

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Sabrina M. Compton <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net> wrote:

Skip has asked for your telephone number, to fill you in on why there is nothing mechanically wrong with your fuel pressure regulator. The issues you are having, is because your fuel pump is in your fuel tank, and has a HUGE amount of pressure, which will blow by the check valve and flood the carburetor. So obviously, my questions were VERY relevant. Guess it’s all that experience I have NOT working on cars.
 
Also, I have been nothing but polite to you, and even after you said the problem was fixed, I still took it to Skip to help you and anyone else who purchases them from us. I have helped you out more than anyone else in this building. I don’t appreciate your attitude. But I will not stoop to your level and make insulting insinuations about somebody I don’t even know.
 
If you would like a MAN who DOES work on cars to explain in further detail why our regulator, nor the Holley one you bought that is the exact same thing, worked, you can give me your number, and I will have Skip, the owner of this business give you a call. Thanks, and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
 
 
-Sabrina M. Compton
 
Skip White Performance & Automotive
*** 1910 Brookside Lane *** NEW ADDRESS
Kingsport, TN 37660
423.722.5152
Direct line : 423.408.2779
 
M-F EXCLUDING Wed 1pm-8pm EST
Sat 11am-3pm EST
 
Toll Free: 877.383.5152
Fax: 423.230.4001
 

From: Customer [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:04 PM
To: Sabrina M. Compton
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

 
Sabrina:

I do not have a problem anymore. 

What I did to solve it is EXACTLY what is / was wrong with the regulators you are selling.  They are DEFECTIVELY assembled with a 1/4 check ball that is too small.  The problem is now yours with your supplier.

The engine size and other application information is IRRELEVANT to a universal fuel pressure regulator that is supposed to regulate down from 4 to 15 psi from a 15 psi inlet pressure.  Either it works reliably or it does not.  With a 1/4 inch ball - it does not - it floods the engine because the ball does not close.

It is your product, not my application that is and was the problem. 

Engine size or fuel pump location has NOTHING to do with it, but I already told you early in this email volley it is a Chevy 5.7 liter Vortec, and I also just told you it is NOW working fine after I did the modifications to the fuel pressure regulator.

So to close, I no longer have a problem - I wrote to just let you know I had fixed it and that is WAS your fuel regulator after all

It is no guess you are not a mechanic, nor do work on vehicles or engines - or you would not have wrote this email demanding nonsensical information that is irrelevant.

You have defective fuel pressure regulators you are selling that could cause engine fires because they malfunction by letting the Your Customerulating check ball stick off the side because the ball installed in them is too small to be forced onto the seat by the spring pressure under it.

That is the end of the story, so you do not need to reply.  One day someone might use one of these regulators you are selling if you do not see to them being fixed or returned or recalled, and then they will sue when the engine fire consumes their vehicle and it is traced back to what I have been telling you.

You guys deal with my info however you want - but an engine application other info you ask is just completely irrelevant to a defectively manufactured item.  PERIOD

Your Customer

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Sabrina M. Compton <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net> wrote:

That did not answer my question. What application are you using this on? I need to know what the engine is and what it came out of. If you truly want us to help solve the problem, I need that information. Thanks
 
 
-Sabrina M. Compton
 
Skip White Performance & Automotive
*** 1910 Brookside Lane *** NEW ADDRESS
Kingsport, TN 37660
423.722.5152
Direct line : 423.408.2779
 
M-F EXCLUDING Wed 1pm-8pm EST
Sat 11am-3pm EST
 
Toll Free: 877.383.5152
Fax: 423.230.4001
 
 

From: Customer [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:54 PM
To: Sabrina M. Compton
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

 
Sabrina:

The issue is EXACTLY what my last email said it is - the unit is being made with a 1/4 inch ball when it was designed for a 5/16 inch ball.

The 1/4 ball can be pushed off to the side of the seat and will never close or conversely simply stick "open" and then flood the engine.  Even the actual Holley units have this issue - and are getting a bad name for now not working either.  They are all JUNK coming out of Korea - the Holleys and these clone knock-offs. If you open an "old" original Holley 12-803 - you will find a 5/16 inch ball.

It has NOTHING to do with an in-tank pump

It is true the unit is designed to regulate down only up to 15 PSI to lower pressures, and that is all I initially put on it.  When it did not work - I tried a higher pressure - which worked - but would flood the engine AFTER the pump and engine was shut off and the residual pressure leaked past it.

My system only has pressure on it when the fuel pump is running, and lets off all pressure to the return line when the key is shut off

Skip should open one up and see if the ball can be made to sit off to the side without the pintle from the diaphragm pressing on it.  If so it will stick open like that on a vehicle on start up and possibly never begin to regulate anything and instead flood the engine - and maybe cause an engine fire. 

Human breath can produce about 7 psi blowing hard, so if one blows hard with both outlets closed by two fingers, it should close and stay that way with breath pressure still on it when one releases the outlet holes.

Then knock the ball and spring completely out the back and look up into the inlet and you will see the ridges to "center" a 5/16 or 3/8 inch ball - and neither of those reassembled with the spring on it will ever be able to stay open off to the side.  Of course the 3/8 inch will restrict too much fuel around the sides - though truthfully it would still work for a mundane application.

I use my return line to let most all the fuel pump pressure return to the tank - and the return line regulator only puts about 12 PSI on the regulator - and the second regulator is there to only act as a line gauge - as they are "pressure plate" regulators, it is "wide open" reading 12 PSI at the inlet to regulator.

The PROOF is it NOW works after replacing the ball with a 5/16 ball.

This is the third system like this I have done, and was the first time I ever had a problem - so it was NOT what I was doing - it is / was the defective regulator which caused all the problems - nothing I did. 

I have been working on vehicles for 40 years - long enough to have owned one of the ORIGINAL 1970 Dodge Challengers "re-invented" exactly today like those then - and i used the Holley 12-803 back then - the knock off this is

I am curious what Skip thinks it was - BUT trust me - if you disassemble one and it has a 1/4 ball in it - it is JUNK - until repaired with a 37 cents 5/16 inch steel ball as a replacement check valve ball.

Your Customer

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Sabrina M. Compton <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net> wrote:

I just printed your email out and showed Skip, so he would be aware of the issue and take any steps necessary. But after reading your email, he thinks that maybe he knows why you were having so many issues. Are you perhaps putting this into an engine that was originally fuel injection but converted to carb? If so, are you still using the in tank fuel pump? If this is the case, I can explain to you what the issue is.
 
If this is NOT the case, let me know because Skip said if it is not what he thinks, then he needs to look into the issue with our supplier. Thanks!
 
 
-Sabrina M. Compton
 
Skip White Performance & Automotive
*** 1910 Brookside Lane *** NEW ADDRESS
Kingsport, TN 37660
423.722.5152
Direct line : 423.408.2779
 
M-F EXCLUDING Wed 1pm-8pm EST
Sat 11am-3pm EST
 
Toll Free: 877.383.5152
Fax: 423.230.4001
 
 

From: Customer [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 12:15 PM
To: Sabrina M. Compton
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

 
Sabrina,

Just a note to let you know, I got to the bottom of the problem with the fuel pressure regulator.

The ( Korean ???) factory is / was / are assembling them  with 1/4 steel check valve balls.  Those can get pushed off to the side when the pintle pin on the diaphragm opens them - then they will not close - and hence the regulator will not work.

I replaced the ball with a 5/16 steel check ball, and it works fine NOW.  A 5/16 ball cannot stay off to the side like the 1/4 ball can - even with the spring pressure on it.

At pressures above 15 psi on the inlet to the regulator, it will work, HOWEVER it will also let fuel creep past the check ball; (which seats on a small brass seat) so one should not put more than 15 psi on the inlet.  It can still allow the carb to flood at higher pressures even though it will hold steadying pressure - the volume will slowly increase - and when shutting off the engine - it will certainly leak past and likely flood the carb.

The actual Holley 12-803 - this unit is a "knock off" from - appears to be coming out of the same factory and has the same problem.  I bought one - it did not work either - I returned it and repaired the one I bought from you guys.

Your Customer

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Customer <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks.

I have a suspicion the speed shop guys are right.  I need high enough inlet pressure to be sure the ball seats and stays seated tight before it will regulate outlet pressure correctly - if it works at all

Your Customer

 

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Sabrina M. Compton <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net> wrote:

I am not very technical. So I somewhat understand what you are referring to, but not entirely, and I have no advice for that. But I did go ahead and issue the refund. If you would like to talk to tech support, AL, my main technician is amazing. You can email him at allen@whiteperformance.net if you want to discuss the issues with him and get his take on it before you mess with it on Sunday. I have already issued a refund to your PayPal account. Thank you so much for your patience with us

 
 
-Sabrina M. Compton
 
Skip White Performance & Automotive
*** 1910 Brookside Lane *** NEW ADDRESS
Kingsport, TN 37660
423.722.5152
Direct line : 423.408.2779
 
M-F EXCLUDING Wed 1pm-8pm EST
Sat 11am-3pm EST
 
Toll Free: 877.383.5152
Fax: 423.230.4001
 

From: Customer [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 12:31 PM

To: Sabrina M. Compton
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

 
Sabrina:

You had might as well go ahead and cancel the order and shipping label.

I will not be able to get time to get under the vehicle and putz around with fuel pressure adjustments (all the regulators are mounted on the frame ahead of the right front wheel) again until at least Sunday

Two speed shop guys here said they had the same problem - but around 40 to 50 psi at the inlet made the unit work - and they had trouble getting lower than 7 psi out the outlet side - and one said he had to put a stronger spring in against the diaphragm depending in the inlet pressure or it will not adjust at all against a high inlet pressure.

They both said the setup I have put together can work to get steady pressure to a carb using an in-tank 90 psi electric fuel pump.

If the regulator will work with the spring that is in it - maybe I will have better luck this weekend if I boost the pressure BACK UP to 40 or 50 psi at the inlet.

If not I will let you know and order the other one again

Maybe you guys should use the relevant portion of Holley's instructions and print them up to ship with the regulators ??

Your Customer

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Customer <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Sabrina:

I got all the emails.  I have got to get this working so I can swap this engine OUT - the Vortec Block style going in has no mechanical pump machining.

Your website does not describe what kind of regulator they are and they come with no instructions and that is the problem.

There are two kinds and they look the same.  One is a deadhead and one is a by-pass.  Some can be used for either - or.

In a deadhead design the fuel comes into the regulator from the bottom past a check ball which is held open by a pin on the diaphragm. (that appears to be this one)  The adjustment spring under the adjustment screw is pushing down on the diaphragm holding the ball off it's seat. Once the fuel fills up the float bowls in the carburetor and the needles and seats shut, it starts to build pressure, pushing the diaphragm against the adjustment spring under the adjustment screw and allowing the ball to go "up" against the seat, effectively shutting off fuel flow to the carb. There is a light spring that helps push the ball against the the seat in the direction of the fuel flow.  The BALL shuts off the fuel flow until the pressure on the other side of it lets fuel get past it to keep the pressure constant

A by-pass style regulator has the fuel coming in the same side of the check ball as where the fuel comes out to the carb. The check ball is held shut with the diaphragm and spring and once the desired fuel pressure builds up it opens that valve and allows fuel to go back to the tank.

I have the one I have set up in a deadhead setup.  (see Your Customer -setp.pdf)

I took it off and opened it again and found that there were ridges in the casting holding the diaphragm seat off the check ball seat.  I clipped out the ridges near the edge of the diaphragm plate, (see pics) so the pintle pin and cone could close.  I put the screws in to hold just the diaphragm and blew into the inlet.  It was seated and sealed, and increasing breath pressure then popped up the diaphragm and closed the check ball with restriction - BUT it was a pretty good stretch of the diaphragm and concerns me.  (see image pics - they are high resolution)

Guessing this is a Holley 12-803 or 804 knock off I looked up Holley's instructions.  =>  https://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R7914-3rev3.pdf

It appeared I now had the regulator ready to work properly.

I am using this kind of set up in the Your Customer_setup.pdf

I put it back on and since I had messed with the 0-140 regulator on the carb feed side trying to get it to work previously - it popped up to 50 psi - but the 15 psi Your Customer held at 9 psi to the carb - for about 5 minutes.

Also I broke one of the four ridges off completely by accident - when I snipped the ridge with the side-cutters - so it is possible the diaphragm plate wedged sideways when trying to regulate and stuck there

I tried to bring the 0-140 pressure feed regulator down to 30 by adjusting the two - to up the return flow and lower the feed pressure - but the 15 psi Your Customer I had just worked on started to climb past 9.  Quadrajets should have 6 to 9 at the inlet or they flood past the needle seats.  9 really is max.

When I got it to down to 30 - then the 0-15 psi Your Customer would not hold anymore and climbed to 15 flooding out the engine.

Holley's instructions say, ". . .  Loosening the regulator locknut and turning the adjustment screw clockwise increases the pressure. Decrease pressure by turning the adjustment screw counter-clockwise. . . ."

So . . .  on this design the adjusting screw all the way out should decrease the pressure the most - IF the ball valve will seat TIGHT

When I adjusted pressure below 30 - it would not seat any longer even with the adjustment screw all the way out

Neither the Holley instructions nor anywhere I can find says what the maximum inlet PSI should be allowed to the regulator - but I was told it was 16 psi and one other spot on the web says something similar.

Do you have the max inlet psi specs for this regulator - or that one - because it appeared to work at 50 psi but not 30 psi.

It appears the one you have now - about to ship - needs to have the screw turned all the way OUT to restrict and let apparently the check ball seat inside the item.  Have the tech check it that way - all the way OUT.

I had a fuel hose which went near one of the exhaust manifolds which may have been heat dried and cracked and under higher even pressure at 9 psi might have been leaking fuel spray which was vaporizing immediately contributing to the pressure fluctuations AFTER I got the regulator fixed and working - that hose of which I have replaced now.

Hold off on shipping that one - since it's Columbus Day it was not going anywhere anyway until tomorrow with the Postal Service.

I replaced that possibly leaking fuel hose so I will try this one more time - tomorrow - with this regulator again at 50 psi and see if it works again and I can get this regulator LOWER than 9 psi.  (I have no proof the hose was leaking - it just cracked wide open when I pulled it out)

Thanks for letting me know

Hold off on shipping that one - until I see if this one will hold low pressure and regulate at the high inlet pressure

Your Customer

 

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Sabrina M. Compton <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net> wrote:

Okay darling. Now we are in a predicament. I just had my tech check it. And he said that you are going to have the same issues. He screwed the bolt in all the way, to where the nut wasn’t even on the bolt, and the bolt was all the way in the regulator, and it still wasn’t restricting it like it should. He said if you put lock tight on it and screwed it all the way in, it should give you the PSI you want. It is up to you. I don’t really know what to do at this point. I can give you a discount on another order in the future, or I can refund some of the old transaction for the chrome regulator. Let me know what you would like to do

 
 
-Sabrina M. Compton
 
Skip White Performance & Automotive
*** 1910 Brookside Lane *** NEW ADDRESS
Kingsport, TN 37660
423.722.5152
Direct line : 423.408.2779
 
M-F EXCLUDING Wed 1pm-8pm EST
Sat 11am-3pm EST
 
Toll Free: 877.383.5152
Fax: 423.230.4001
 
 

From: Customer [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 4:00 PM
To: Sabrina M. Compton

Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

 
In case the Paypal payment doesn't show the shipping info, it is:

Your Customer
630 N. Tustin St #499
Orange, CA  92867

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Customer <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
I sent the payment to xxxxxxxxxxxx as "you've got money" - it has shipping info and part info

 

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Sabrina M. Compton <xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net> wrote:

I will give you a discount, but the purchase will have to be made through me. You can still pay with PayPal, which is what I recommend because I don’t find it very safe to email your credit card number.
 
In Your Customerards to Fred White and Skip White. We are no longer located at the address that was next door to White Performance and Machine. They are related, but we have no affiliation with their business whatsoever.
 
Just confirm the email address that is attached to the PayPal account, and I will get it done.
 
Please confirm the address it needs to be shipped to as well.
 
I will have my tech check it before it ships.
 
As far as the discount, I cannot go to $9.00, but I will do $11.55
That is our cost on the regulator, and it does not factor in the fees I will pay PayPal, and the $5.15 it will cost me to ship it. SO I think $11.55 is fair. I am still losing money, but I am also giving you a tremendous discount. Please let me know if this suitable. Thanks!
 
 
-Sabrina M. Compton
 
Skip White Performance & Automotive
*** 1910 Brookside Lane *** NEW ADDRESS
Kingsport, TN 37660
423.722.5152
Direct line : 423.408.2779
 
M-F EXCLUDING Wed 1pm-8pm EST
Sat 11am-3pm EST
 
Toll Free: 877.383.5152
Fax: 423.230.4001
 

From: Customer [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 7:00 PM
To: xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net

Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

 
Sabrina:

This is exactly what I have been asking - is there a discount if I order => http://www.ebay.com/itm/330801117252 and keep the existing one for the gauge I still need anyway - OR order directly from your site would be fine also - so you do not have 10 to 12% eBay fees to pay on a discounted order now needed on an order already done and closed through eBay.

The RED BILLET PRO unit may work if it is not defectively manufactured on the same assembly line and around the same time as this one - and if someone could check it actually has restriction (which would indicate it would be more likely working than not) by blowing through the fuel inlet first that would help before shipping it.

It is not the actual diaphragm design that is bad - they are ALL designed the same way with a diaphragm and spring pressure even as the actual Holley regulator everyone now copies - it is the design of the assembly parts that are the problem somehow for this ONE type whoever manufactures it. 

In essence it is a cast "white metal" (aluminum / zinc) housing that has a defective design when used with the diaphragm plate across ridges that hold the plate from seating the pintle valve - OR most likely the diaphragm is assembled wrong with the rolled edge turned down when it should be turned UP before riveting the pintle conical seating pin to it.  That would cause the pintle pin to be held UP off the seat by the rim of the diaphragm plate unable to close and thus NOT regulate.

I can only guess Skip White (skipwhiteperformance.com) and Fred White (whiteperformance.com) must be related because you are only two doors apart in Kingsport, TN?  (3349 and 3353 E. Stone drive?)

So what is the discount if I order => http://www.ebay.com/itm/330801117252 and keep the existing one for use of the gauge when the new one arrives? 

It appears you sell the bare regulator like the one I have for $8.50 ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/200764915977 ) - so $17.50 minus $8:50 equals $9.00 and shipping should be free for this "upgrade" this time because the I paid shipping already and got a defective item.

I know it is not your fault - but I am betting someone in the factory in China turned the diaphragm plate the wrong way when assembled it - for a BUNCH of them - and that is why they do not work - the rolled edge DOWN is keeping them from seating the pintle pin so it can regulate.

This stuff is coming out of China for pennies, so $9.00 delivered is more than fair for the upgraded red unit.  If you want to go lower - I will not complain either.

I would still check the remaining "lot" of those you have and if they are all that way - send them back to your supplier as defective - Dave already verified another one was bad.

So $9.00 delivered is more than fair for the upgraded BILLET PRO unit. (I do not care if you ship RED, BLACK or BLUE - but BLACK blends and looks better to me)   If you want to go lower - I will not complain either.  If that is satisfactory, send me a Paypal invoice and I will pay it - no need to go through eBay again.

Your Customer

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:00 PM, eBay Member: skipwhite <skipwh_jzil2828sdfx@members.ebay.com> wrote:

                       

 

eBay sent this message to Customer (Customer).
Your Your Customeristered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.

 

 

Seller has responded to your question about this item

 

 

 

 

Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.

 

                       

Dear Customer,

I am so very sorry for the delay and confusion in these emails. I am sorry that the item is defective, but unfortunately, the other regulators I have are the same design, just a different brand name and color
If you returned the item, you would be refunded $21.25
A small flat rate box costs $5.15 for postage. It is up to you if you want to return it. BUT IF you do, please send an email to xxxxxxxxx@whiteperformance.net so that I know it is coming back and to look out for it.

If you do not wish to return the item for the refund, I will gladly give you a discount on your next order. You will need to email me DIRECTLY at the above email in order to receive that discount

Thank you for your patience and I hope this has helped.

-Sabrina M. Compton

 

***VERY IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ BELOW!!

Skip White Performance

423-722-5152 or 011 4237225152 if international (we can call you back if needed)

877-383-5152 Toll free for ALL US & CANADA

423-288-3734 - Fax an order to us

8am - 6pm EASTERN for TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE

8am - 8pm EASTERN for all other assistance

 

Please allow 2-3 BUSINESS DAYS for a reply due to our extremely high message volume.

 

If you need to: CHANGE YOUR ORDER OR ADDRESS, PAY MORE SHIPPING, REPLYING ABOUT AN ORDER ON HOLD OR OUT OF STOCK, or any other IMMEDIATE issues, you MUST CALL OR UNDERSTAND IT MAY TAKE A DAY OR TWO BEFORE WE SEE YOUR MESSAGE, EXPECIALLY IF IT WAS SENT DURING THE WEEKEND, SO IT WOULD BE WISE TO JUST CALL US AS SOON AS YOU CAN. However, we do strive to get to every message as promptly as possible and most all tracking numbers are posted in your ebay purchased WHEN THE ORDER IS PROCESSED TO BE SHIPPED.

Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply

 

 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Customer
To: skipwhite
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

Sent Date: Oct-05-12 08:07:19 PDT

Dear skipwhite,

I am disabled. I do not speak on a phone well. I am an Above Knee amputee of the left leg and medication prescribed to me - Nuerontin - after my amputation has permanently affected my ability to speak in sight unseen communications. I comes across o me in my head as a jumbling of what is being said.

I can think, read and write just fine - and perform most all other tasks - BUT processing spoken word when speaking on a phone.

This is pretty simple - you have affirmed the item is defective - and that others you have are also defective in that the item does not provide any back pressure to be able to regulate anything

I have purchased barbs and and adapter to make the gauge even fit because it was 1/8 NPT and the regulator was 3/8 NPT.

If I have to return this - it will cost me about five dollars for postage - for a fifteen dollar item that never did or could work because is defectively designed or assembled.

Another replacement one of this design would be pointless.

At this point I will loose either way it goes - to return it or to need to buy all the items again separately - plus the time I have spent,

So . . . I asked a simple question - is there a discount available to me to swap into this different style and design that hopefully will work? => http://www.ebay.com/itm/330801117252

- Customer

 

 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
From: skipwhite
To: Customer
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

Sent Date: Oct-05-12 07:37:36 PDT

Dear Customer,

Please call us at 423.722.5152 anyone here can help you.
Dave

***VERY IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ BELOW!!

Skip White Performance

423-722-5152 or 011 4237225152 if international (we can call you back if needed)

877-383-5152 Toll free for ALL US & CANADA

423-288-3734 - Fax an order to us

8am - 6pm EASTERN for TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE

8am - 8pm EASTERN for all other assistance

 

Please allow 2-3 BUSINESS DAYS for a reply due to our extremely high message volume.

 

If you need to: CHANGE YOUR ORDER OR ADDRESS, PAY MORE SHIPPING, REPLYING ABOUT AN ORDER ON HOLD OR OUT OF STOCK, or any other IMMEDIATE issues, you MUST CALL OR UNDERSTAND IT MAY TAKE A DAY OR TWO BEFORE WE SEE YOUR MESSAGE, EXPECIALLY IF IT WAS SENT DURING THE WEEKEND, SO IT WOULD BE WISE TO JUST CALL US AS SOON AS YOU CAN. However, we do strive to get to every message as promptly as possible and most all tracking numbers are posted in your ebay purchased WHEN THE ORDER IS PROCESSED TO BE SHIPPED.

 

 

 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Customer
To: skipwhite
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557
Sent Date: Oct-04-12 07:49:06 PDT

Dear skipwhite,

Hi Dave:

I already tried all the way down without the lock nut on the vehicle. No better.

That is when I took it off the vehicle and took it apart.

Even holding the diaphragm plate down tight with my thumb, I could not get the pintle to seat and restrict anything.

The way it works is the diaphragm has a conical (cone-like) center pintle on a round plate which is supposed to seat in the inlet, and a spring is under the center screw where the lock nut is.

Tighter holds back more pressure in theory.

Mine does not seat at all to ever be able to restrict anything.

I could try a flat washer to act as a secondary intermediary seat - but it would need to be a small steel or brass washer and is still subject to erosion wear from fuel fluid constantly squeezing around it under pressure, and it likely would not be smooth Your Customerulation but would "pulse" as the plate lifts and lowers.

I have a bad machined housing most likely or - if the one you have is the same way - they are all bad in a manufactured "lot" of them

It looks like I had better move away from this unit to one like this hopefully machined correctly => http://www.ebay.com/itm/330801117252

Is there anyway for you to test one of those with the breath test, and then for me to swap this for that or get a discount on a direct buy of it since I really still need to keep and have the gauge anyway?

- Customer

 

 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
From: skipwhite
To: Customer
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557
Sent Date: Oct-04-12 06:49:04 PDT

Dear Customer,

I DID THE BREATH TEST YOU ARE RIGHT, I TOOK THE JAM NOT OFF AND RAN THE SET SCREW ON IN AND IT STARTED TO RESTRICT THE AIR FLOW.
TRY THIS SEE IF THAT HELPS, WITHOUT THE JAM NUT THE SETSCREW WILL PROBABLY BACK OUT SO I WOULD TRY SOME LOCTITE ON IT.

DAVE

***VERY IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ BELOW!!

Skip White Performance

423-722-5152 or 011 4237225152 if international (we can call you back if needed)

877-383-5152 Toll free for ALL US & CANADA

423-288-3734 - Fax an order to us

8am - 6pm EASTERN for TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE

8am - 8pm EASTERN for all other assistance

 

Please allow 2-3 BUSINESS DAYS for a reply due to our extremely high message volume.

 

If you need to: CHANGE YOUR ORDER OR ADDRESS, PAY MORE SHIPPING, REPLYING ABOUT AN ORDER ON HOLD OR OUT OF STOCK, or any other IMMEDIATE issues, you MUST CALL OR UNDERSTAND IT MAY TAKE A DAY OR TWO BEFORE WE SEE YOUR MESSAGE, EXPECIALLY IF IT WAS SENT DURING THE WEEKEND, SO IT WOULD BE WISE TO JUST CALL US AS SOON AS YOU CAN. However, we do strive to get to every message as promptly as possible and most all tracking numbers are posted in your ebay purchased WHEN THE ORDER IS PROCESSED TO BE SHIPPED.

 

 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Customer
To: skipwhite
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

Sent Date: Oct-03-12 08:50:31 PDT

Dear skipwhite,

Thank you for allowing a replacement
.
My concern is getting another one that does not regulate anything also - if it is a bad design

Literally air can be blown through it with breath pressure from one's mouth and no restriction at any position of the adjusting screw - and thus fuel will flow as easily too.

With the screw all the way down it should be OFF to any flow.

Can someone check a replacement before it is sent so that it does WORK?

Do I need to return this one?

Your Customer

- Customer

 

 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 

From: skipwhite
To: Customer
Subject: Re: Item I received is not as described: Customer sent a message about CHROME FUEL PRESSURE regulator & GAUGE PF-251+GAUGE #330713231557

Sent Date: Oct-01 -12 14:50:38 PDT

Dear Customer,

if you want to we can replace it or refund your money just call and let us know what you want to do anybody should be able to help thanks daniel